NEW WESTMINSTER, B.C. - Robert Pickton's defence lawyer suggested Thursday that when a key Crown witness testified Pickton once advised on a good way to kill junkies, the witness was making it up.
Peter Ritchie also suggested to Scott Chubb that contrary to what Chubb testified earlier this week, it was another man, not Pickton, who once injected a sex-trade worker with windshield washer fluid.
The other man, Pat Casanova, was a "partner" of Pickton's, Ritchie suggested.
Chubb agreed Casanova was often at the farm helping Pickton butcher pigs and was regarded as a kind of partner, but he denied Pickton had ever told him Casanova had injected someone.
Jurors heard from Casanova last week. He was among three people who were arrested but never charged in the murders Pickton is accused of and the defence has repeatedly tried to divert attention to Casanova.
Chubb testified earlier this week he had a conversation with Pickton while he worked on the Port Coquitlam farm in the summer of 2000.
Chubb testified Pickton had been upset about a woman who had been living on the farm, but whom Pickton believed was stealing from him.
Chubb testified Pickton suggested he "talk" to the woman for $1,000.
Pickton went on to say that a good way to kill a junkie would be to inject her with windshield washer or radiator fluid because an autopsy would be unlikely since it would be assumed she had died of an overdose.
On Thursday, Ritchie asked Chubb if he could recall Pickton mention a "partner" during that conversation.
Chubb, who worked mostly part-time at the Pickton property between 1993 and 2001, said he did recall that but didn't know what Pickton was talking about.
"Are you sure you are not making up the partner, or the whole conversation?" asked Ritchie. "Maybe he told you a partner had injected a sex-trade worker?"
"No sir. My best recollection is that he didn't say his partner had injected anybody."
"You do recall clearly that he never said that a partner injected a sex-trade worker?"
"I believe that he didn't say his partner injected a sex-trade worker."
Ritchie suggested Pickton was recounting a discussion he had had with someone else. Chubb responded that Ritchie should ask his client.
The lawyer then read from statements Chubb made during the preliminary hearing in 2003, where he was asked whether Pickton had mentioned a partner during the conversation.
Chubb told the defence lawyer during the preliminary hearing that Pickton had mentioned a partner.
The lawyer at the preliminary hearing suggested to Chubb that a partner of Pickton's told him about that method and Chubb replied: "It's possible."
"Do you now agree?" Ritchie on Thursday.
"I don't remember the whole conversation," said Chubb.
"He never told you he (Pickton) injected someone did he?" asked Ritchie.
"Not to my recollection," Chubb replied.
Casanova told jurors last week he did not kill anybody.
The defence is grilling Chubb because his credibility and memory are critical as a key Crown witness. Jurors have heard that a syringe containing windshield wiper fluid was found on the farm by investigators.
But Ritchie has repeatedly portrayed Chubb as trying to use his evidence as a way to manipulate police into giving him money and a new identity.
Also on Thursday, Chubb recanted one of his statements, providing more fodder for Ritchie.
Ritchie confronted Chubb on Wednesday with RCMP notes that indicate Chubb had complained in 2003 that he had been threatened by a Hells Angel who warned him not to testify.
On Wednesday, Chubb called the claim "ridiculous."
But on Thursday, Chubb said he now remembers making the call to police.
"Why did you say, 'It's ridiculous?'" asked Ritchie.
Chubb said he didn't think he had made the call because it happened so long ago.
The RCMP notes read in court on Wednesday quote Chubb as telling an officer in 2003: "You know you guys (RCMP) are just unbelievable. I received a phone call today by one of the. . . Hells Angels in Vancouver and was told literally if I. . . make any appearance at that. . . court case I am dead."
Ritchie played a series of telephone calls made by Chubb to the police, most of them between March and July 2003, in which he asked for money and to be placed in the witness protection program.
Chubb agreed he had made all those calls.
In one, Chubb demanded a "new name" and birth certificate and identification. He also threatened to launch a lawsuit against the RCMP because they had "failed to protect me" and were thwarting his efforts to go on the witness protection program.
In a March 15, 2003, call Chubb threatened to release transcripts of his conversations with the RCMP and said: "I think I know where Willy has hidden the bodies."
Chubb told court he wasn't after money and was only trying to pressure police into placing him in the witness protection program.
He told jurors his comment about Pickton and bodies came from a conversation he had had with a truck driver who told him he saw Pickton "moving containers to an excavation site."
Another call had Chubb asking for $3,500 so he could move himself, girlfriend and child to Kelowna. He said the police did not give him the money.
Chubb repeated that he was scared and referred specifically to the accused's brother Dave Pickton.
"Even to this day I don't know what Mr. Pickton is capable of," said Chubb.
Chubb testified on Wednesday that Dave Pickton had threatened him, warning him not to testify.
All the calls played for jurors Thursday were made after the partial remains of the six women Pickton is accused of killing had been recovered from the Port Coquitlam property where Pickton lived.
Chubb was calling the police as recently as March 2005 when he called the RCMP tipline to say: "You're not going to believe what I think I remember. I might know who Willy's partner is."
He told Ritchie that he said that because he recalled that a truck driver he knew from the days he worked at the property told him that he had helped Pickton dispose of two bodies.
Chubb, who has an extensive criminal record, told jurors he had received thousands of dollars from the RCMP to pay for his information, as well as for other expenses and debts.
Ritchie suggested the total was more than $13,000 but Chubb said he was not sure.
Pickton, who at times appeared amused by Chubb's apparent inconsistencies and memory problems as he testified, seemed more animated Thursday than he has been.
He seemed to be on the verge of laughter as the Chubb tapes were played in court.
Pickton is on trial for six counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Georgina Papin, Marnie Frey, Sereena Abotsway, Brenda Wolfe, Andrea Joesbury and Mona Wilson.
He is to face another trial on 20 counts of first-degree murder at a later date.
The trial was delayed for a couple hours Thursday by legal arguments and when it appeared the delay could go on, Justice James Williams stepped in and suggested a later meeting.
"Let's do it that way in the interest of getting through this sometime in our life," he said to loud laughter in the courtroom.
