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    • PM Justin Trudeau testifies at foreign interference inquiry

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    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is testifying today, for the second time, as part of the federal inquiry into foreign interference.

    The prime minister's appearance comes after weeks of hearings as part of the second phase of the Public Inquiry into Foreign Interference in Federal Electoral Processes and Democratic Institutions.

    • Â鶹´«Ã½ is covering Trudeau's testimony live, watch our livestream and follow our live blog below

    Trudeau's testimony has been on the books for some time, but comes amid heightened international attention on India's alleged foreign interference in Canada, after the RCMP revealed it had credible evidence linking Indian diplomats and consular officials to clandestine and serious criminal activity in this country. 

    The second phase of the public inquiry is focused on the federal government's capacity and capabilities to "detect, deter and counter" foreign interference targeting Canada's democratic and electoral processes, as well as the experiences of diaspora communities. 

    This more forward-looking portion of the probe is meant to help Canada shore up its democratic processes against future threats as the next federal election approaches. Trudeau is the last witness to take the stand, following secondary testimony from top government officials and cabinet ministers in recent days.

    Follow along for live updates

    4:11 p.m. EDT 

    Commissioner Hogue thanks the PM for his time, Trudeau concludes by thanking her, and all working at the commission for the work they are doing. He rises from the chair and the prime minister's appearance ends. 

    4:08 p.m. EDT 

    AG council asks: From your perspective, from your experience, can and should Canadians have confidence in their elections, their parliamentarians, and and their government's resolve? And if so, why? PMJT: Cites steps/measures to shore-up elections taken, then states: "We have heard repeatedly throughout this process and over the past years' testimony from all top intelligence officials in this country that the results of the 2019 and 2021 elections were determined by Canadians... alone. That is a big thing for Canadians to feel confident in, that despite attempts at interference by foreign countries, Canadians decided the outcomes of those elections." 

    4:01 p.m. EDT 

    Council for the Attorney General now conducting some concluding follow-ups, or circle-backs on various elements of the prime minister's testimony. This is a sign Trudeau's appearance before PIFI is nearing the end. 

    3:53 p.m. EDT 

    Chinese Canadian concern group asks Trudeau will you commit to ensuring that partisan politics will not get in the way of the government's efforts to respond to PRC interference? PM replies: "When it comes to foreign interference, it is something that we have always taken seriously, something that we have not tried to politicize, something that can't always be said for other parties, but for us, it should be something that all Canadian parties can agree on." 

    3:46 p.m. EDT 

    Ukrainian Canadian Congress Q to PM: If there's more dissatisfaction with regard to domestic issues like housing, inflation, etc., can that change the focus of certain parties, leading them to pay more attention to domestic issues then for example, foreign issues such as help for Ukraine? "Well, Russia is trying to demonstrate that democracies don't function. Therefore, if they can amplify statements along the lines that 'everything is broken,' that's what they will do," Trudeau responds. 

    3:35 p.m. EDT 

    Lawyer puts to Trudeau that much of the evidence heard focuses on the ability of the government to detect and deter foreign interference at a governmental level. But of course, foreign interference activities affect more than just parliamentarians, but also Canadian citizens, specifically those of diaspora communities. PM says one of the most important responsibilities of the government in regards to foreign interference is to work with diaspora communities who are usually the first victims of foreign interference.

    3:25 p.m. EDT 

    Trudeau: "I believe that it is important for every mission around the world to engage with civil society in the country in which it's in, in a way that is appropriate." 

    3:00 p.m. EDT 

    CPC council asks: Are you aware of the names of any Liberal parliamentarians, former parliamentarians, or candidates, that are at risk of being compromised by FI? Trudeau says: "Yes. And for other parties as well." On break now for 15 minutes. 

    2:53 p.m. EDT 

    Questioned by the Conservative Party's council about his earlier comments about Poilievre's missing clearance, Trudeau is asked if he is aware that there are other security cleared individuals within the CPC who do receive regular security briefings? He says yes, but elected officials making decisions about who can run is different than leaving that call up to a chief of staff, for ex. Council suggests no names of any CPC parliamentarian or candidate has been brought to Poilievre's chief's attention in the briefings he's received. Trudeau says ask CSIS why, but he suspects it's about need-to-know. 

    2:39 p.m. EDT 

    Asked about another assertion about safe seats/ safe ridings, Trudeau quips that yes they exist but "there are fewer of them in the case of my own party," to no reaction. He then goes, "that was a joke, you can laugh."

    2:34 p.m. EDT 

    Facing questions from NDP MP Jenny Kwan's council, Trudeau again says he disagrees with certain Specifically that "foreign actors covertly supported or opposed candidates by exploiting vulnerabilities in political party governance and administration." PM calls it a "very general and broad statement."

    2:20 p.m. EDT 

    Still in back-and-forth with Chong's council, PM: "We are a country that leans on its intelligence agencies, not on criminals leaking things to newspapers. Lawyer: "One final point, sir, the evidence repeatedly has been that other parts of the government have not relied on CSIS warnings. In fact, the Minister of Public Safety doesn't even seem to have received them, or certainly didn't read them." Chong council adds, it's "all well and good" to say Canada respects security agencies, but the evidence suggests they have been sidelined. 

    2:04 p.m. EDT 

    Being questioned by MP Chong's council about Zhao Wei, Trudeau offers that in his role: "I need to know the behavior of China. I need to know the behavior of India. I need to know the behavior of Russia... I do not need to know the operational details to be able to establish and empower the agencies to actually go after it…I trust and count on my intelligence agencies to do the follow ups on the dozens of diplomats that they must keep a close eye on across the country at all given time. Me sitting with a list of names of potential problematic people does nothing to help keep Canadians safe in the role that I have." 

    1:56 p.m. EDT 

    "Let me say that the issue of the Indian government as a possible source of foreign interference is not something that only appeared over the past weeks or even over the past year. Canadian intelligence agencies have been collecting that information for a number of years now. And as I said in an earlier answer this morning, we are constantly adapting and adjusting to shifting approaches by other states as they engage through different technologies, through different means, through different vectors… advancing their aims in Canada, and we will continue to learn and adjust as necessary to do what we must do to keep Canadians safe, to protect our institutions and our democracy," Trudeau tells the inquiry. 

    1:49 p.m. EDT 

    Sikh Coalition questions PM on the latest India allegations, the broader context. Asks will Canada apply targeted sanctions, or levy other methods of accountability to push India to cooperate? "The primary driver of the government's actions in this case, and in most, if not all cases, is ensuring the safety and security of Canadians. That is one of our top foreign policy goals, always," Trudeau says in response. Coalition representative notes that didn't answer his question, moves on. 

    1:30 p.m. EDT 

    Returning after the break Commissioner Marie-Josee Hogue is first to ask questions of the prime minister. Goes broadly over a few main areas of the inquiry's work, relevant information. For the next few hours Trudeau will face questions from groups who have been deemed to have a vested interest in the issue of foreign interference. 

    12:25 p.m. EDT 

    Chaudhury then states: "Maybe it's not about getting everything right, but contributing to the building of a national discourse." Trudeau: "Absolutely, although it'd be nice to get more things right too, at the same time." With that, the commission council concludes initial examination. PIFI is now on recess until 1:20 p.m. EDT. At that time, the parties with standing will begin cross.

    12:21 p.m. EDT 

    Interesting reflections from the prime minister on how NSICOP is functioning. Notes just six years old, with recent questions from some "as to its legitimacy and usefulness," the committee of parliamentarians is still trying to figure out how to manage a multi-partisan structure "in a highly polarized and partisan environment," when handling an issue like foreign interference. PM says he doesn't think it’s a bad thing, but part of a robust system, perfection shouldnt be expected.

    12:12 p.m. EDT 

    After a back-and-forth over a list of the significant instances of foreign interference in Canada's democratic institutions and electoral processes, what Trudeau did/didn't know, the prime minister is asked about what more can be done to improve political parties' response efforts and awareness, better protect nomination races, etc. PM says making sure someone at the top of each party has security clearance is a first step. 

    11:58 a.m. EDT

    After saying he has to be careful, Trudeau goes on to state that he has the names of the names of "a number of parliamentarians, former parliamentarians and or candidates in the Conservative Party of Canada, who are engaged or at high risk of, or for whom there is clear intelligence around foreign interference." Goes on to call it "bewildering" and says it "lacks common sense" that Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre, who is campaigning to be the next PM continues to refuse to get security clearance to receive classified briefings in order to be informed. 

    Update: At 2:13 p.m. EDT, to the prime minister's comments. 


    11:50 a.m. EDT 

    Interesting little behind-the-curtain on how party leaders contend with caucus/candidate concerns re: poor judgment or untrustworthiness. Trudeau notes he can decide what committees MPs sit on, whether they get a critic or parliamentary secretary role, but then gets into when it gets complicated when the intel is about a member from another political party. "As leader of the Liberal Party, it is awkward to say the least… for me to be engaging in who should run… or who should be a critic… for an opposition party."

    11:39 a.m. EDT 

    Big response just now from the PM. Notable in a few ways. Commission council asks him what the latest is, at around 11:32 a.m. where things stand after Monday's major RCMP announcement. Trudeau speaks at length, shedding more light on the nature of the allegations. Says national police force going public was with the goal of "disrupting the chain of activities that was resulting in drive by shootings, home invasions and violent extortion, and even murder across Canada, particularly in the South Asian community, largely Sikh, but not exclusively the Sikh community." 

    11:30 a.m. EDT  

    What led to his September 2023 House of Commons announcement re: India? Trudeau re-hashes the intel re: "credible intelligence," and the various outreach efforts made in the summer leading up to it. Notes the Canadian government chose to work behind the scenes until on the other side of the G20. Culminated with a conversation with Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi, Trudeau continues. He then returned to Canada to see India attacking this country in the media, rumblings of domestic news breaking, too. It was then that the prime minister decided it was in the country's interest to speak up. 

    11:21 a.m. EDT 

    On Canada declaring China's diplomat Zhao Wei "persona non grata" Trudeau says it's not something he had to approve, but he was apprised of and engaged in the decision. "Because kicking out a diplomat is a big thing, not a small thing. And it is right and proper that the authority be at the foreign minister level, but it is something that as prime minister, I am very much kept in the loop on," Trudeau said. Cites alleged involvement in "increasing instances" of foreign interference, as a reason. 

    11:14 a.m. EDT 

    Trudeau says he learned of the allegations concerning the PRC targeting MP Michael Chong, "in the media after a criminal leaked that information." Says his first reaction was to ask the NSIA why he was learning of this, that way. Says leaks of this nature damage Canadians' confidence in institutions. Not to minimize, he says, but the impression made by the leaks versus what the threat reality was, differed. 

    11:10 a.m. EDT 

    Back on Bill C-70 post-morning break. For context, here's some backstory on the bill, which passed the Senate in June 2024. Trudeau is talking about empowering premiers to receive security clearance to be able to access relevant information, notes there have been instances where the federal government has "brought in" premiers on issues "directly relevant" to them. 

    10:40 a.m. EDT

    Just after saying that keeping Canadians safe is not a one-day job, the commission takes its first break of the morning. Back at 11 a.m. EDT. 

    10:38 a.m. EDT

    The PM on major new foreign agent registry legislation: "At no point would I say that C-70 is enough and we can now sit back and coast on this for the next few decades because there will be no need to adjust and add more. That would simply be irresponsible."

    10:27 a.m. EDT 

    First indirect reference to the India latest. Trudeau talks broadly about attacks on democracy and institutions from authoritarian states as well as attempts at disinformation and propaganda "sowing chaos in our democracies." He says these threats "are much more serious and severe over these past years than they have been. We need only to look at the headlines this week to see the extent of interference activities and the impact they have on Canadians." 

    10:23 a.m. EDT 

    PMJT on uptick in Incident Response Group meetings: "Coming out of the pandemic, which was a significant crisis for the government, we were very much looking at different ways of being able to better respond to and learn from the things we did well, the things that we could improve on, in future, pandemics or crises… this was a body that made sense for us to put together to handle things like this… to be able to cover different themes around the real strategic threats to Canada." 

    10:11 a.m. EDT

    PM is asked is there, or was there an issue with ministerial accountability when it comes to foreign interference? Trudeau brings up SITE task force, the sensitivity of writ-period, caretaker mode. Notes limits on how or whether ministers or the prime minister can go out and speak about interference attempts. "That would be destabilizing." 

    10:04 a.m. EDT

    PM says he is a huge believer in empowering parliamentarians to be able to be safe… notes the briefings to parliamentarians that MPs receive when elected, and those that are ongoing are not directed by the government of the day. They're directed by the House of Commons, the Sergeant at Arms, etc. 

    9:59 a.m. EDT

    Interesting section on a so-called Chinese targeting paper -- the PM again says he has to trust his NSIA to bring info to his attention. After reading it in depth, there were bits he found interesting, but overall, he says it wasn't something that brought new revelations or altered his perception.

    The commission council Shantona Chaudhury notes the final version of this, then-NSIA Jody Thomas said never reached her desk.

    9:50 a.m. EDT

    Trudeau is now speaking about the role his national security and intelligence adviser plays. Of note, the PM has cycled through a series of individuals in this role during his time in power.

    9:44 a.m. EDT

    Asked what he "needs" to see of the vast information coming in, the prime minister says intelligence about dangers to Canadians, information about new policy, ways to combat new threats, or information that would be germaine to an upcoming international meeting such as a G7.

    "I have to trust, and I do, the intelligence officials, and more specifically, the national security and intelligence adviser to make determinations on what it is I need to see," he says.

    9:37 a.m. EDT

    Trudeau was asked to comment on how / when he receives intelligence. He tells the public inquiry into foreign interference that he typically gets the most serious information presented to him in person.

    And "usually" at least once a week he goes into a secure room with high-level security officials to talk about the more urgent intelligence that is being worked on or received.

    9:30 a.m. EDT

    Welcome to our live blog coverage of the PM's testimony. Just getting underway now with commission council going through some housekeeping with Justin Trudeau. 

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